Warp Talons: Difference between revisions

From 2d4chan
Jump to navigation Jump to search
1d4chan>SparkSovereign
(Added alternate opinion. They have their uses! ...but they are few.)
m (42 revisions imported)
 
(32 intermediate revisions by 24 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
'''Warp Talons''' are [[Chaos Raptors]] with extra [[Chaos]]. They look [[awesome]], yet kinda [[Derp]] rule-wise. Instead make them [[count as]] [[Chaos Raptors]]. Remember only to replace their arms with the appropriate equipment. [[File:WarpTalons01_873x627.jpg|500px|thumb|center|The WH40K equivalent of "style over substance."]]
[[File:WarpTalons01_873x627.jpg|300px|thumb|right|Quickly, brothers in Chaos, [[JoJo's Bizarre Adventure|strike a pose!]] ]]
'''Warp Talons''' are [[Chaos Raptors]] with extra [[Chaos]]. They look [[awesome]], yet they used to be (and still are) kinda [[Derp]] rule-wise. So people made them [[count as]] [[Chaos Raptors]] instead.


==Fluff==
==Fluff==
The [[Warp]] has overtaken them [[meme|(but it's a good pain for them)]] so hard that their capacity for reason or even basic speech is no longer present. They're little more than deranged bat-monsters with an overactive hunting instinct. Their hands and feet have mutated into wickedly sharp talons, at the cost of being unable to use any other weapon, and they are partially [[daemon|daemonic]]; in fact, they are capable of traveling directly through the Warp, cutting their way through the Veil itself whenever a good battle can be had. They are so bestial that fielding them is supposed to be the equivalent of releasing the dogs of war or the kraken- rather than being given orders, they're shown a picture of what they're supposed to kill or given a possession of the enemy so they can track it by scent. Whenever they're not in flight, they even hang upside down from the ceiling like bats or impotently crawl on all fours, having lost the ability to walk normally.
The [[Warp]] has overtaken them [[meme|(but it's a good pain for them)]] so hard that their capacity for reason or even basic speech is no longer present. They're little more than deranged bat-monsters with an overactive hunting instinct. Their hands and feet have mutated into wickedly sharp talons, at the cost of being unable to use any other weapon, and they are partially [[daemon|daemonic]]; in fact, they are capable of travelling directly through the Warp, cutting their way through the Veil itself whenever a good battle can be had. They are so bestial that fielding them is supposed to be the equivalent of releasing the dogs of war or the kraken- rather than being given orders, they're shown a picture of what they're supposed to kill or given a possession of the enemy so they can track it by scent. Whenever they're not in flight, they even hang upside down from the ceiling like bats or impotently crawl on all fours, having lost the ability to walk normally. They get a good depiction in the Space Shark's novel, where they are given a roost in an abandoned Imperial chapel and are unleashed en-masse to rip & tear a whole Terminator squad to shreds.


==Crunch==
==Crunch==
Let's break this down, shall we?
When launched in 6th, they were a disappointment. They had claws sharp enough to cut reality but not scrap metal worn by meganobz, they were expensive and they had to deep strike in order to use their special ability - and they had to get within 6 inches in order for it to work! They were basically universally panned by players at the time save for those looking for an expensive and fragile distraction. 7th gave them a minute usefulness bump by making them Troops in a Night Lords army along with Raptors, however Raptors were picked ahead of them again because of their versatility and price point.


'''PROS'''
With 8th though, the Talons have a new lease on unlife; the AP of their weapons is now terrifying to TEQs. They also get a nice little ability that whatever they charge cannot overwatch back at them if they charge on the turn they deep strike (which is an 8th edition thing now). Now that deep strikes don't scatter (with the caveat that they have to be 9" away from the nearest enemy unit), the trick is to get them into close combat from deep strike. Unfortunately, rolling a 9 on the charge roll without a khorny icon is problematic. While they're protected from the dangers of Overwatch, your chances of actually getting the charge off is fairly low. Likewise, with the new FAQ Warp Talons (and any deep striking unit) cannot have Warp Time cast on them, denying them a guaranteed charge on the turn they arrive.
*Jump Infantry
*Daemons (5++ and Fear)
*Come with two Lightning Claws
*Have a nifty attack when they deep-strike that blinds targets within range, which gives them a modicum of defense


'''CONS'''
The thing is that they are super duper overpriced. If you want some deep strike impact, even mutilators are far better (worse: Bloodletter bombe). And fly+mvt 12 is useless when a sneeze will wipe you... For just 2A.
*Expensive as fuck! They clock in at 30 pts./model; for comparison's sake, Terminators cost a paltry 31 pts./model and can beat the shit out of Warp Talons.
*No assault grenades! This makes charging anything in cover a risky prospect.
*Barring their blind attack, they have no ranged weapons, which makes them vulnerable to gun lines which they may be charging/deep-striking.
*Speaking of that blind attack, it has a ''criminally'' short range - 6 fucking inches! You're more likely to scatter onto something and lose your overpriced assault unit or be totally out of range for it to be effective. Even then, blind attacks require an initiative test which isn't likely going to work in a Space Marine metagame.
*They eat up a fast attack slot, which are rightfully designated to [[Helldrake|Helldrakes]], which costs a paltry 10 pts. more than a basic squad of 5 Talons. For the loss, Helldrakes are the single unit in Codex: CSM that makes the fucking book even remotely competitive on account of drakes being enormously deadly!


===Conclusion===
The 9th edition book has some interesting rumours about Talons, namely that they're losing their special anti-overwatch ability in favour of 5 attacks and an immunity to attrition. This, admittedly, sounds based.
Just don't! If you want jump infantry, Raptors do what Talons do but for less and arguably better; if you're going to take one Fast Attack choice, WHY AREN'T YOU TAKING A FUCKING HELLDRAKE?!


===Alternate Opinion===
As of 10th, they're pretty much a whole unit of Raptor Champions costing 130 points for 5 models with a 5+ invul save, making them slightly more durable than Raptors. 4 attacks at S5 -2AP D1, plus rerolls to wound, makes them hit almost as hard as Possessed. They're decked to hunt anyone trying to flee, as it forces a Desperate Escape of any enemy unit within engagement range attempting to Fall Back, and reduces the result by -1 if said unit is Battle-Shocked.
With the Heldrake nerf, we can once again at least <i>look</i> at our other Fast Attack choices.  If you want to run up and charge people, [[Chaos Spawn|That-Which-Shall-Not-Be-Named]] are actually faster (somehow), more likely to actually get there, and do more damage to things that aren't MEq, for the same points cost. However, if you're playing with a more shooty (or at least footsloggy) army, Warp Talons are a fantastic defense against drop pods; enemies that drop in get to shoot, and then they all die to a storm of Lightning Claws that can threaten your entire deployment zone almost trivially, all while hiding behind buildings that hopefully block LoS to the enemy army.  Once you've dealt with enemy deep strikers in your backfield, they then have the speed to catch up to your force and contribute further; pretty good for a counter-charge unit/drop pod insurance. But again, if you want to actually charge the enemy straight away, you're better off with Chaos Spawn because WAIT NO <b>OHGODSNOSHHSLNNNNGHNGGGG</b>


{{Chaos-Official}}
{{Night Lords}}
{{Chaos Space Marines}}
{{Black Legion}}
{{Word Bearers}}

Latest revision as of 12:56, 23 June 2023

Quickly, brothers in Chaos, strike a pose!

Warp Talons are Chaos Raptors with extra Chaos. They look awesome, yet they used to be (and still are) kinda Derp rule-wise. So people made them count as Chaos Raptors instead.

Fluff[edit]

The Warp has overtaken them (but it's a good pain for them) so hard that their capacity for reason or even basic speech is no longer present. They're little more than deranged bat-monsters with an overactive hunting instinct. Their hands and feet have mutated into wickedly sharp talons, at the cost of being unable to use any other weapon, and they are partially daemonic; in fact, they are capable of travelling directly through the Warp, cutting their way through the Veil itself whenever a good battle can be had. They are so bestial that fielding them is supposed to be the equivalent of releasing the dogs of war or the kraken- rather than being given orders, they're shown a picture of what they're supposed to kill or given a possession of the enemy so they can track it by scent. Whenever they're not in flight, they even hang upside down from the ceiling like bats or impotently crawl on all fours, having lost the ability to walk normally. They get a good depiction in the Space Shark's novel, where they are given a roost in an abandoned Imperial chapel and are unleashed en-masse to rip & tear a whole Terminator squad to shreds.

Crunch[edit]

When launched in 6th, they were a disappointment. They had claws sharp enough to cut reality but not scrap metal worn by meganobz, they were expensive and they had to deep strike in order to use their special ability - and they had to get within 6 inches in order for it to work! They were basically universally panned by players at the time save for those looking for an expensive and fragile distraction. 7th gave them a minute usefulness bump by making them Troops in a Night Lords army along with Raptors, however Raptors were picked ahead of them again because of their versatility and price point.

With 8th though, the Talons have a new lease on unlife; the AP of their weapons is now terrifying to TEQs. They also get a nice little ability that whatever they charge cannot overwatch back at them if they charge on the turn they deep strike (which is an 8th edition thing now). Now that deep strikes don't scatter (with the caveat that they have to be 9" away from the nearest enemy unit), the trick is to get them into close combat from deep strike. Unfortunately, rolling a 9 on the charge roll without a khorny icon is problematic. While they're protected from the dangers of Overwatch, your chances of actually getting the charge off is fairly low. Likewise, with the new FAQ Warp Talons (and any deep striking unit) cannot have Warp Time cast on them, denying them a guaranteed charge on the turn they arrive.

The thing is that they are super duper overpriced. If you want some deep strike impact, even mutilators are far better (worse: Bloodletter bombe). And fly+mvt 12 is useless when a sneeze will wipe you... For just 2A.

The 9th edition book has some interesting rumours about Talons, namely that they're losing their special anti-overwatch ability in favour of 5 attacks and an immunity to attrition. This, admittedly, sounds based.

As of 10th, they're pretty much a whole unit of Raptor Champions costing 130 points for 5 models with a 5+ invul save, making them slightly more durable than Raptors. 4 attacks at S5 -2AP D1, plus rerolls to wound, makes them hit almost as hard as Possessed. They're decked to hunt anyone trying to flee, as it forces a Desperate Escape of any enemy unit within engagement range attempting to Fall Back, and reduces the result by -1 if said unit is Battle-Shocked.

Forces of the Night Lords
Leaders Chaos LordChaos ChampionDaemon PrinceMaster of ExecutionWarpsmiths
Troops Chaos ChosenChaos RaptorsChaos Space Marine SquadCultistHavocsWarp Talons
Great Crusade-era AtramentarsNight RaptorTerror SquadReaversContekars
Vehicles Arquitor BombardBike SquadChaos Land RaiderChaos PredatorChaos Rhino
Flyers Storm EagleThunderhawk
Superheavy Tanks Fellblade
Allies Chaos Space Marines
Forces of the Traitor Legions of Chaos
Leaders: Chaos Champion - Chaos Lord - Daemon Prince - Dark Apostle
Master of Execution - Sorcerer - Master of Possession - Lord Discordant
Unaligned: Chaos Chosen - Chaos Raptors - Chaos Space Marine Squad - Chaos Spawn - Chaos Terminators
Cultist - Havocs - Mutilators - Obliterators - Possessed - Tech-Assassin - Warp Talons - Warpsmith
Negavolt Cultist - Greater Possessed - Dark Disciple - Heretek
Faction Aligned: Khorne Berzerkers - Plague Marines - Noise Marines - Rubric Marines
Great Crusade-era: Breacher Siege Squad - Consul - Despoiler Squad - Destroyer Squad - Esoterist Consul - Legiones Decurion
Legion Herald - Legion Outrider Squad - Legion Vigilator - Moritat - Master of the Signal - Praetor
Reconnaissance Squad - Seeker Squad - Sky Hunter Squad - Tactical Support Squad - Inductii
Structures: Noctilith Crown - Skull Altar
Walkers: Chaos Dreadnought (Ferrum Infernus - Chaos Contemptor
Hellforged Leviathan - Hellforged Deredeo
) - Helbrute
Vehicles: Bike Squad - Chaos Land Raider (Land Raider Hades Diabolus) - Infernal Relic Predator
Kratos Heavy Assault Tank - Mastodon - Predator Tank - Rhino Transport - Sicaran Battle Tank
Stalk Tank - Vindicator - Typhon Heavy Siege Tank - Spartan Assault Tank - Rapier Armoured Carrier
Whirlwind Scorpius - Termite - Cerberus Destroyer - Fellblade
Flyers: Harbinger - Hell Blade - Hell Talon - Fire Raptor
Storm Eagle - Xiphon Interceptor - Thunderhawk - Stormbird
Spacecraft: Dreadclaw Assault Pod - Kharybdis - Doomfire Bomber - Swiftdeath Fighter
Titans: Daemon Knights - Chaos Emperor Titan - Feral Scout Titan
Ravager Battle Titan - Chaos Warlord Titan - Woe Machine
Unaligned
Daemon Engines:
Decimator - Defiler - Death Wheel - Forgefiend - Heldrake
Maulerfiend - Soul Grinder - Wirewolf - Venomcrawler - Helstalker
Daemon Engines
of Khorne:
Blood Reaper - Blood Slaughterer - Brass Scorpion - Cauldron of Blood - Death Dealer
Doom Blaster - Kytan - Lord of Skulls - Skull Reaper - Tower of Skulls
Daemon Engines
of Nurgle:
Blight Drone - Contagion - Foetid Bloat-Drone - Myphitic Blight-Hauler
Nurgle Plague Tower - Plague Hulk - Plagueburst Crawler
Daemon Engines
of Slaanesh:
Hell-Scourge - Hell-Knight - Hell-Strider
Questor Scout Titan - Slaanesh Subjugator
Daemon Engines
of Tzeentch:
Aether Ray - Doom Wing - Fire Lord of Tzeentch
Mirrorfiend - Silver Tower of Tzeentch - The Auruntaur
Auxiliaries: Chaos Daemons - Death Guard - Thousand Sons - Emperor's Children - World Eaters - Fallen Angels
Forces of the Sons of Horus/Black Legion
Leaders: Chaos Champion - Chaos Lord - Daemon Prince - Dark Apostle
Master of Execution - Sorcerer - Master of Possession - Lord Discordant
Troops: Bringers of Despair - Chaos Chosen - Chaos Raptors - Chaos Space Marine Squad
Chaos Spawn - Chaos Terminators - Cultist - Greater Possessed - Havocs - Mutilators
Obliterators - Possessed - Tech-Assassin - Warp Talons - Warpsmith - Heretek
Great Crusade-era: Justaerin - Reaver Attack Squad - Luperci
Walkers: Chaos Dreadnought (Ferrum Infernus - Chaos Contemptor
Hellforged Leviathan - Hellforged Deredeo
) - Helbrute
Vehicles: Bike Squad - Chaos Land Raider - (Land Raider Hades Diabolus)
Infernal Relic Predator - Predator Tank - Chaos Rhino - Vindicator
Flyers: Harbinger - Hell Blade - Hell Talon
Storm Eagle - Thunderhawk - Stormbird
Unaligned
Daemon Engines:
Decimator - Defiler - Forgefiend - Heldrake
Maulerfiend - Soul Grinder - Venomcrawler
Helstalker
Auxiliaries: Khorne Berzerkers - Plague Marines - Noise Marines - Rubric Marines
Allies: Chaos Space Marines - Lost and the Damned
Forces of the Word Bearers
Leaders: Chaos Champion - Chaos Lord - Daemon Prince - Dark Apostle
Master of Execution - Sorcerer - Master of Possession - Lord Discordant
Troops: Anointed - Chaos Chosen - Chaos Raptors - Chaos Space Marine Squad
Chaos Spawn - Chaos Terminators - Cultist - Dark Disciple - Greater Possessed
Havocs - Mutilators - Obliterators - Possessed - Warp Talons - Warpsmith
Great Crusade-era: Anakatis Kul - Ashen Circle - Diabolist - Gal Vorbak - Vor Nergeth
Walkers: Chaos Dreadnought (Ferrum Infernus - Chaos Contemptor
Hellforged Leviathan - Hellforged Deredeo
) - Helbrute
Mhara Gal Dreadnought
Vehicles: Bike Squad - Chaos Land Raider
Infernal Relic Predator
Predator Tank - Chaos Rhino
Flyers: Harbinger - Hell Blade - Hell Talon
Unaligned
Daemon Engines:
Decimator - Defiler - Forgefiend - Heldrake
Maulerfiend - Soul Grinder - Venomcrawler
Helstalker
Auxiliaries: Khorne Berzerkers - Plague Marines - Noise Marines - Rubric Marines
Allies: Chaos Space Marines - Lost and the Damned