Warhammer/Tactics/8th Edition/Lizardmen

From 2d4chan
Revision as of 07:46, 11 December 2013 by 1d4chan>Flufflion (→‎Named Characters)
Jump to navigation Jump to search

Why Play Lizardmen

Most Lizardmen units benefit from one or more of the following awesome special rules:

  • Cold-Blooded: All Lizardmen units can roll three dice and choose the two lowest for Leadership tests.
  • Scaly Skin: This is an armour save of some description, which combines with other armour. Most models have the 5+ version, but a few have 4+. Skinks now do gain a 6+ Scaly Skin which is a nice buff considering they went down in leadership.
  • Predatory Fighters: Most Saurus and Krox gain this new rule which allows them to gain more attacks by rolling 6's to hit. The downside is that they don't generate further attacks and must pursue unless there is a Skink Character within 6". Luckily they don't have to overrun so there are very few downsides to this special rule. Thanks based Vetock.
  • Aquatic: Skinks have Marsh and River Strider, gain the ability to become steadfast in that terrain, and gain a -1 to hit against shooting. A gear way to use the terrain to your advantage for flanking and general disruption while not getting bogged down in terrain.

Also, they have DINOSAWSS and some of the most balls out powerful spellcasters in the entire game.

Unit Analysis

Lords & Heroes

Named Characters

Note: Under the current edition, named characters tend to be overpriced; you can pretty easily emulate most named characters from scratch and save yourself some points. That said, a few named characters do have abilities and wargear or wargear combos unique to them, so if you absolutely need to have them, go ahead. Just make sure you're really getting your points worth.

  • Lord Mazdamundi: The one Mage Priest that isn't lazy and actually gets stuff done, Mazdamundi rides a Stegadon (because he fwants to!) and makes it rain flaming frogs (because why not?)! He, like Lord Kroak, has a massive raft of special rules, including Stubborn, a 4+ ward save, the ability to reroll results on the Miscast table, an unlimited amount of dice when casting, a super-powerful spell, Loremaster in any lore he wants, Always Strikes First (with a Strength 5 Poisoned attack that destroys other magic items), a Battle Standard, and a mount that has a 2+ Scaly Skin save and grants Mazdamundi a 2+ armor save. Also, if the Stegadon is killed, Jabba Junior here can still use his Palanquin to move around instead. Yes, Mazdamundi sounds pretty awesome. However, he costs a whopping 620 points 780 points, meaning he's impractical in all but the biggest battles. He can be funny in a large Storm of Magic game, but as a a regular character to field, he's probably a pass.
  • Kroq-Gar: This guy is so awesome, Lord God Mode Sue and Failbaddon may only dream to be as awesome he is. Among his accomplishments are: Fighting an unending horde of Daemons for 1000 years, live for 8000 years and still be able to cut down an entire army with only a few dozen warriors, taming not just one but several Carnosaurs as his mounts during his life time (including Grymloq ) sadly retconned; he's only had Grymloq now (and Grymloq doesn't age), and many more. If his mount is killed he gains Frenzy, if he is killed his mount gets Frenzy, can bring a unit of Saurus Cavalry as Core, has a 5+ ward save which now affects Grymloq as well (if he fails it, the guy who hit him in CC suffers an automatic S5 hit), his spear gives him S +1 on the charge and deals two wounds for the price of one (P.S., he has 5 Attacks). You WILL take this guy, you WILL immediately charge the enemy and you WILL revel in your opponents misery. (Fun-Fact: he is the most expensive Lizardmen model when it comes to both points and money.) His Ribbon Device, I mean, Hand of the Gods, is now a Bound Spell which casts 'Light of Shem' from the Lore of Light. Grymloq is also the only named mount to retain an improved stat line over 'basic' mounts. DERP!!! Except for Stormwing and Malhandhir (if we're just talking retention) and Ashtari (if we count new units that still have improved statlines.) In fact, that's just from examining one army book, so let's just assume OP has no idea what they're talking about on this particular matter...
  • Chakax: Once upon a time, Chakax choked a Daemon Prince with his bare hands and then fought hundreds of wild jungle creatures for 2 days straight. When both he and a Slann are in a unit of Temple Guards, the whole unit becomes Unbreakable (unless either he or the Slann are killed), when his Mace hits something, the opponent must tell you every magic item that unit has (if it has any), when fighting in a challenge his Key grants him a 5+ ward save and Always Strikes First (even though his mace is great weapons and has the Always Strikes Last rule), while his Mask watches you while you sleep prevents enemy Scouts from being placed within 20" of Chakax, and all hidden enemies (like Night Goblin Fanatics) must be revealed when they are within 20" of Chakax. Best used for defense. That's about it though.
  • Gor-Rok: Gor is his name, Gore is his game. If you're making a model of him and at least one half of him isn't drenched in blood... you're doing it wrong. Seriously, read his fluff and you'll understand. He is a Stubborn, re rolls failed To Hit rolls (generating Predatory Fighter attacks on a 5+) and can ignore (Heroic) Killing Blow and Multiple Wounds on a 2+ (On a 1 even this bad boy has felt the pain and goes down like so much shit.). He also makes people charging him take Dangerous Terrain tests with a -1 modifier. Take this guy ALWAYS, no matter the size of the game. at a new and improved points of 185 points. In a small game he can hold your main line, in larger games he can hold a flank with your Sauras pod with spears (you WANT to be charged, remember?). Also, don't forget he has T6 and an Armour Save of 2+.
  • Tehenhauin: He is the cheapest Lord the Lizardmen have (costing 250pts), heck even an Oldblood can cost more then him when fully upgraded. He is a Level 2 3 Wizard who uses the Lore of Beasts, he is Immune to Poison, Unbreakable, has Poisoned Attacks, gains S +1 on the turn he charges, has a 5+ ward save, and he makes all Skinks (excluding Mounts, Kroxigors in Skink units, etc.) hate Skaven. He rides a Tide of Serpents which I'm not going to mention when you can simply replace it with an Ancient Stegadon with an Engine of the Gods (for a bonus 290pts). In short, when your making an all-Skink army and you're fighting Skaven, you should definitely bring this guy.
  • Tetto'Eko: He is an ancient (Level 2, Lore of Heavens Loremaster) Skink Priest who rides a Palanquin, can be accompanied by Skinks and can predict the future. In short, a buffed-up Skink Priest but without the upgrades (including the Ancient Stegadon, you've got Tehenhauin for that). He can make a 2d6 roll in the Magic Phase and if he gets 3+ he buffs your wizard's Lore of Heavens till the next turn. After deployment, but before determining who gets the first turn, you may vanguard d3 of your units (very useful for shoving stegadons and carnosaurs into your opponent's face right off the bat). If Tetto'Eko successfully casts the spell Comet of Cassandora, you may re-roll the dice at the start of each player magic phase to see if the comet arrives. Also, his Palanquin gives him a 5+ ward save. Now he is a great wizard and all, but in larger battles, a Slann is better. Though because he is a Hero you could run both. His very reasonable point cost combined with always useful abilities make him (arguably) the best named character in the codex.
  • Tiktaq'To: OK, his name is kinda silly, but as a commander, he is not half bad. His Terradon gains the Killing Blow special ability after using the Drop Rocks special rule. Anyone shooting at him or his unit suffers an additional -1 To-hit, he has a 6+ ward save and Magic Resistance (1) as protection, his blade ignores armor saves, and the unit he is with can deep-strike (or something like that). He is as useful as a Skink special character can get, put him in a Squad of Terradons and use him for Tank-Hunting.
  • Oxyotl: You might like his story, about being able to sneak around the Warp for over 8000 years and survive, assassinating Greater Daemons as he goes and then returning to the Warhammer world with an group of Chameleon Skinks. But on the table, he is not so good. Sure, he is the cheapest Special Character the Lizardmen have (160pts), but he is still only useful in small battles, where he is in fact very devastating, but in larger models, he could cause a lot of trouble to the enemy and act as a fire magnet (unless you bring a lot of Stegadons, which you should). He is a great assassin, but it's not like a unit of ordinary Chameleons can't do the exact same job just as good. Also, his model is pretty old and pretty ridiculous.

Generic Characters

Note: While named characters are judged against their generic counterparts, generic characters are examined based on their role in your army.

  • Slann Mage-Priest: The main downside with a Slann is cost, in 7th these guys were like Batman and Superman; people kitted them out with all kinds of magic bling of awesome that could handle any situation like Batman, but if things went wrong you could rely on its sheer magical power like Superman. In 8th, where Lord points cost now really means something, the Slann is nearly unplayable in the way he used to be. SOMEONE PUT IN SOME INFO ON HIS POWERS!!!
  • Saurus Old Blood: Killing machine. Take that lovely Saurus and make him more Badass. Gets a Fuck-You-A-Saur (Carnosaur) mount which is a like a mini T-Rex, can be tooled up to either assassinate Lord characters and Daemons, or solo regiments of infantry. In light of the Slann's expensive point cost, take this guy for Lord-level asskicking. Comes with a 4+ Scaly Skin by default and a lot of attacks before you buy any upgrades. Single purposed and perfect at it. Be warned, however; these things are freaking expensive: the Carnosaur alone costs almost as much as a naked Slann. They also cost huge $$$, especially if they get made in Finecast. The main problem is that Slann are really good and you usually won't be able to take both in an army. 1 bad cannonball and you're left with a max lvl 4 wizard and you're down around 400 points (though if you let this happen then obviously you haven't kited him out to be a rape train with no breaks and deserve to lose those 400 points). A very powerful build for the old blood is giving him the armor of destiny and the fencer's blades. This means he gets 6, S5 attacks at WS 10. The build also gives him great survivability with a 2+ armor and 4+ ward (and you can always throw him on a cold one to increase that armor save to 1+, not that you'll really need it). Guaranteed to make opponents rage, especially in smaller point games (such as 1000).
  • Saurus Scar Veteran: The Old Blood at an affordable price, while not as a scary and no access to the fuck-you-a-saur. and he can even ride the Fuck-You-a-Saur now! It still pays out that Saurus melee butchery that makes people cry and it can take a Cold One mount. Can be the BSB when you're not sticking that on your Slann. It's a good idea in larger games where you can afford a few of these or a pair of Scar Veterans and an Old Blood, to equip them and use them like a missile, send it after one thing and watch it get maimed. Don't try this in smaller games because they're more useful sitting in Saurus units so they can get their teeth into infantry and really turn the tide. Solid choice as a General at low level games and good in larger battles for keeping things killy. Can now take a Carnosaur, allowing the combo previously thought to be near impossible, a Slann and a kickass monster!
  • Skink Chief: Cheaper now and with more mounted options this guy is a little more viable. Only take this guy mounted, really; he's way too soft compared to the Saurus characters and Skinks in general suck as proper ranked units. Can take Stegadons, Ancient Stegadons and Terradons as mounts, which is what you should be doing. On a Terradon it can do some good character hunting and screw warmachine crews as well as provide a leadership buff to that Terradon unit, but it means you're general should be someone else. Not a solid General choice but nice as a supporting character and getting another big Dinosaur on the table. Like the scar vet, this character can be the BSB.
  • Skink Priest: Good low-level Wizard, can act as a range extended for Slann allowing them to send Magic Missiles or Direct Damage as if the Slann was where the Priest is standing. Can take the Engine of the Gods if you want to be banned from playing, can take a few nice bits of gear like the Black Cube. They're limited to the Lore of the Heavens (Beasts now too!) but they have enough magic items to maximize their usage. Pretty much they support the Slann or are used in large numbers to spam spells down the enemy's throat. Do not underestimate them as they have access to the Comet Of Cassandora and Lizardmen are the only army that can reliably spam that spell. Wyssan's Wildform is a spell tailor made into making Lizardmen rape machines

Core Units

  • Skinks: Cheap and spammable light infantry which can either be equipped with Blowpipes and hand weapons, or for the cost of 1 point, they can take javelins and shields This is only true for skink skirmishers, ranked skinks get hand weapons, shields, and javelins standard. Blowpipes are the best offer as they both out-range and have the same range and out-shoot the javelins with two shots each. However, both choices are still quite short-ranged and, for a unit that is so weak in close combat, the extra shots at charging enemies greatly helps in actually hurting them. Kroxigors can be taken in the second rank of the unit and are allowed to normally attack over the front rank of Skinks. This gets some heavy hitters in there, but overall, Skink units are a good place to put these thugs, they have a higher Ld and pass on the effect of causing Fear to the unit, one Kroxigor is cheaper than a Skink Chief, packs more punch, causes fear and enables you to fill out the ranks quicker for rank bonuses. Despite weak (native) leadership and terrible toughness, they can be surprisingly effective against non-elite infantry and cavalry for one turn, with a relatively high initative, the stand and shoot and the new poison rule enabling their close combat attacks to auto wound.
  • Skink Skirmishers: On the other hand, as a small skirmishing unit with blowpipes, Skinks can be great for kiting enemy units and being an all-around thorn in their sides. Put simply, if the Skink Skirmishers manage to inflict wounds on any unit, your opponent will be compelled to either shoot at it, commit a unit to charge it, or try to ignore the damage they're doing. The first option is bad because damage spells and shooting units are overkill against units that size, making it a waste of resources when other, more dangerous units, are unharmed. The second option is bad because most close combat units are significantly more costly than Skinks and are much better suited to stopping/slowing your Saurus bricks from smashing through the battlefield. This gets even worse if the Skinks are able to shoot at the unit prior to the melee and inflict wounds. However, with cheap units like Skaven Clanrats, this is less of an issue, except that large Clanrat units shouldn't chase down half a dozen Skinks, and no one fields those kinds of units with an equivalent cost to your Skinks. With elite units, the problem is further exaggerated because any damage done to the Skinks is needless. Most elite units cost close to 30 points a model, Derp, maybe really powerhouse heavy cavalry, but most Elite Infantry runs from 12-16 points, which means that more than 2 ranged casualties is a lose-lose tradeoff at best. Ignoring the Skinks, as some players do, is even more stupid because that leaves them free to pick off other skirmishers, violate war machine crews, and chip off wounds from other important units or characters. In summary, Skink Skirmishers are suicide units that force bad tradeoffs for the enemy; they'll die when they're attacked, but its a lose-lose situation, and in the wider context of the battle, leads the opponent to be inefficient with his units.
  • Saurus Warriors: The backbone of any Lizardmen army, Saurus Warriors pack a 5+ Scaly Skin save, shields, spears/hand weapons, 2 base attacks, are Cold Blooded, and are WS3, S4, & T4! While the unit has some great stats for a hand-to-hand unit, their god-awful initiative of 1 ensures that they don't leave combat unscathed, and their cost per model, spears included, is higher than just about any other rank-and-file core choice. These two key issues are mostly irrelevant though, because Saurus Warriors are the best fucking brick infantry in the game. Chaos Warriors may be better per model, but they cost a good bit more. Besides, no other faction can field R&F infantry as effective as yours without crippling their army size. Units that engage Saurus Warriors that have the misfortune of getting flanked by another unit of them might as well have never been deployed. Saurus Warriors either smash straight through the enemy lines, or end up in a slow grinding combat that leaves either half a unit of Saurus or a few dazed and bloodstained enemies left, ready to be swept away by the rest of your army. They can realistically tarpit any infantry unit short of Dragon-Ogres and the like, and they still won't get through cleanly or untouched. Overall, not taking a Saurus unit or two is sign that the army isn't intended for anything other than giving the other guy a very easy win.
  • Now when rolling to hit have a chance of generating more hits,spears are free, and they must pursue unless near skinks

Special Units

  • Jungle Swarms: 35 points per base, minimum 2 per unit. Hell of an improvement, but it gets better. Any combat in which the swarms are in base contact with the enemy all other Lizardmen units get Poisoned Attacks! Suddenly your Saurus's 6's both auto wound and get another attack! Try it at least once.
  • Temple Guard: Saurus with stat boosts, Light Armour and halberds. Plus, these guys when combined with a Slann (mandatory if both are on the field) as the BSB, have access to some great buffs (not including whatever spells and magic items the Slann takes). TG are easily a must-have if you have a Slann in your army, and are often worth taking even if you don't have a one. They cost a lot more then the Saurus warriors, but honestly, these guys are pretty fucking awesome. Nothing fights this unit without taking horrible damage. Nothing. Though remember that due to the odd way that Temple Guard and Slann rank-up, they get relatively few attacks and most combats against rank-and-file will be a slow grind unless you can break the enemy's morale. The unit has stubborn under the eyes of a Slann, and if that is the BSB you pretty much get this rock solid blob of nigh-unbreakable fuck you in the centre of your army that gives all units around it the boost to Cold-Blooded, the Slann's Leadership, the buffs from the BSB etc...
    • Also, if you're taking Slann with Temple Guard, take the Lore of Life, because Flesh-to-Stoned Temple Guard are a war crime.Especially with the Throne of Vines buff!
  • Cold One Cavalry: Nice heavy cavalry option for the Lizardmen, the riders are Saurus, so copypasta the Saurus Warrior stuff over here, albeit they don't benefit from the spears as much, because cavalry spears are +1 S instead of +1 A. But still, the unit is pretty useful, good for a hammer/anvil combo with Saurus Warriors and it's fucking amazing if you do it with a Temple Guard unit. Nerfed with 8th Edition's anti-cavalry attitude, but still a fast and hard-hitting unit in an otherwise slow and steady or fast and weak faction. Not an essential unit like other Saurus units, but a unit of 6 with a musician is a cost-effective way to bring fast-moving pain to the table. Multiple units can tag-team effectively, but at the cost your army's overall size. Kroq-Gar can make one unit of them Core choices. They're still good (despite 8th Edition), but aren't the sledgehammer they used to be. Also DINOSAWZ.
  • Terradon Riders: Excellent for harassment tactics, hunting war machine crews, solo models, and skirmishers. Their ability to drop rocks is also handy for softening up something tough before the Saurus or TG lay the smackdown on it. The Arboreal Predators rule used to make it better then any hippie Wood Elf flyer because none of them could fly unhindered through trees, but this will probably change. Also, as they are technically light cavalry, they get a vanguard move. Not the best unit in straight up combat but, because the riders are Skinks with their poison attacks, expect them to be effective at wounding. Nice, a bit pricey, but good at doing their job. Also DINOSAWZ.
  • Ripperdactyl Riders: Useful for hunting those pesky cannons and other warmachines. Sure. they have Frenzy, but them being flying cavalry means you get a free reform at the end of their movement to make sure they point in the direction of something you want to charge anyway. Armour piercing killing blow attacks and quite a lot of them for a relatively low price? Yes please! Add the Lustrian Blot Toad to a unit of enemy archers for extra rage.
  • Bastiladons: Looks like a walking tank, has the armour save of a walking tank (the first 2+ scaly skin in the game!), but toughness 5 means that they aren't quite so tough and will go down quite easily in combats against large infantry blocks. Their true power is in trotting along a big block of saurus warriors, protecting their flanks and buffing their initiative with its solar engine. Chuck a spare power die into it during your magic phase to either watch your opponent ignore it and blast a unit for free or to let him waste dispel dice on this power so you can get your more important powers through.
  • Kroxigors: They are good in close combat, but point for point, Saurus warriors are a better option being able to absorb more wounds, and deal more attacks. That said, they're not a dead unit, but it's best to keep them close to something and have them flank whatever that unit charges.
  • Chameleon Skinks: The Little Reptiles That Could. Costing, being Special and simply being more of the same doesn't help Chameleon Skinks when compared to Skink Skirmishers. That's not to say they're terrible (they are your only scouts option and great warmachine hunters, for example, and absolutely fuck up dwarfs), it's just that while they do the same job but a lot more effectively they take up space and points that are needed to a lot of the other more expensive units. In an all-Skink list or any list they will earn their place, but if you're choosing between these guys and any of the other Specials you will always do better with the others. They have a special character that isn't really worth mentioning, unless GW gives him the ability to make Chameleon Skinks a Core unit, don't expect to see him or the unit much.
  • Stegadon: Fuck Me. Its a bolt-thrower mounted on a DINOSAUR! This unit is fucking fun, but also effective, put simply its a two-in-one package, you get a bolt-thrower that can move and shoot, even when in combat, and a big monster that can crush things under its... paws? Crewed by Skinks because you need a BS above 0 to fire anything, its AWESOME. It can shoot while in close combat, meaning you can either fuck up whatever is about to get crushed, or you can fire at other units as a way to say "COME GET SOME BITCHES!". Its pretty good, but its defenses are a little weak for such a massive fire magnet. A good choice and a fun one, every time.

Rare Units

  • Ancient Stegadon: You thought the above was awesome, this guy is tougher, hits harder in combat and does 4d6 blowpipe shots, again it can do this in combat. Again you will see infantry die with this angry old bastard. Then there is the special version mounted by Skink Priests...
    • Engine of the Gods: In the previous book you were only able to take these as a mount for a skink priest, however they can now be taken in the rare section. It has 3 different effects: 1. it gives all your units within 6" a 6+ ward save. 2. it can cast a bound spell, that does damage to units close to it. 3. each magic phase you can choose 1 lore from the main rulebook, and the casting values of all spells in that lore goes down by 1. The 6+ means you can go with spears on your saurus, and still have a 6+ ward. The bound spell is mostly for clearing chaff, and is just a nice thing to have in the back pocket. The -1 to casting values is nice in a beast lore skink priest spamm list, because it will allow you to have an easier time casting wysans on your saurus.
  • Salamander Hunting Packs: This unit can do some serious damage, and it's good for stopping Regenerating faggots, The salamanders got changed quite heavily with the new book. First of all they can no longer march and shoot, meaning you probably wont be shooting first turn anymore. Second they no longer give -3 to armour saves with their shooting attack, but it instead got strength 4. These guys are absolutely amazing they can halve a units size with a single shot, these things work miracles.
  • Razordon Hunting Packs: each of these are able to make an artillery dice amount of shots with a range of 18 each turn. They can move and shoot but they can no longer march and shoot. They are pretty terribad at hitting, so unless you have a slaan able to buff them with hand of glory you wont be hitting with many of the shots, but since they put out such a large amount of shots, at least some of them will hit. now that there is no limit to the amount you can pack into a single unit, you could take a unit of 8 and just stick them into your enemies face and just dare them charge these guys, and if he does he will surely come to regret it.
    • Keep in mind that for both hunting pack units, the skink handlers cannot be targeted by attacks but can dish out a couple of weak attacks back, which has a couple of situational anti-character uses.
  • Troglodon: What a piece of shit this thing is. 200 points for a good looking model that can't do anything well. Its designed to be useful in any phase but M7 isn't anything too fancy to write home about, its Magic support is an upgrade you have to pay for that lets the skink rider channel and it has the same rule that Skink Priests have, Arcane Vassal (Slann can cast through them.) The shooting attack is the lamest attempt to make its point cost, 1 S5 poisoned shot with D3 wounds, with a short range and BS3 you might hit once or twice a game if lucky. In combat it will wilt faster than an errection after seeing goatse, 3 attacks from the beast and 1 from the Skink, the monster is only S/T 5 with a 4 up Scaly skin so any S4 infantry can kill it before the T-stomp comes. Its Primeval Roar is the only possibly useful thing this unit brings (but you aren't bringing it are you) Once per game the Troglodon roars and boost all Predatory Fighters within 12" to get extra attacks on a 5+ instead of 6+. Best fielded 4' off the ground in a display case
Alternative opinion: What I believe this guy MEANT to say was: TROGLODONS ARE AWESOME! M7? Awesome, I'm in your face turn one with Arcane Vassal spells. (btw take this, take the Discipline that grants you all the signature spells on your Slann and laugh as you snipe your opponents general with Lore of Death turn one.) Its shooting is craptacular yes, but why are you shooting with it? Charge flanks with it and when crunch time comes, drop the roar and watch your Sauras RIP AND TEAR the opponents a new pie hole. This, if enough punch is delivered, will knock seven shades of crap out of most armies, even giving Warriors of Chaos a run for their money. All this pain train for 200 points, oh and its Aquatic for extra lulz.

Original Option: I am pretty sure the "Alternative Option" was posted by Vetock himself. The troglodon is terrible, absolute fail in every phase. He seems to think the arcane vassal is good when infact most spells dont even need it. As for his genius tactics of charging flanks with it, well i have been playing warhammer for years and i can tell you now that it will never survive long enough to hit a flank in combat. As for the 5+ roar thing. Again, your opponent wont really care. Its just 200 points of pure fail. Take an ancient steg instead

Building Your Army

Buying Your Army

As always, the Battalion box is a good start; it comes with a small unit of Temple Guard, a big unit of Saurus Warriors, some Cold One Cavalry, and some Skinks.

After that you will need to buy probably 2 more Saurus warrior Boxes unless you're going light on saurus due to crippling fear of victory. Also the skinks you get aren't really enough to run more than a single unit of skirmishers, so buy box of skinks. The TG are also undersized so again might another box to get them up to strength. Mainly this gives you a smattering of units for a lower cost than buying the boxes and the amount you get in the boxsets will be slightly less than what you need so there is no overflow... or by the sounds of it might just be easier to buy a second battalion.

Getting a Slann is mandatory, no you can't just say screw it, even if you never play with it, not having a Slann will get you laughed at by every neckbeard who hears of your foolishness. After that its up to you really. Due to the restrictions on army size an Engine of the Gods will not be worth buying until the Lizardmen army book is released and we can get everything recosted for an acceptable price that actually works with the new army rules.

Army Composition

Some people (you know who you are) think Lizardmen (and specifically Sauras), are a defensive army. This however, is not true. Take 2 blocks of 30, with spears if your a taker(or have Gor-Rok to lead them). These are your main hitting force. Next, take 2+ units of Skinks. Blowpipes used to be better, but now take Lustrian Javelins or a mix. Exact number is up to you. Next, your block of Temple Guard. 20 MINIMUM, no cheaping out here this bad boys are gonna keep your Slann safe, so may as well go all out. Buy a magic standard, Flaming is always handy in a pinch. Then you need to get some support...here is where your aquatic friends come in handy. No Flounder or Sebastion up in this shit, hell no we got lizards who breathe FIRE (despite being water dwelling reptiles..?) and ones that carry a shotgun of spikes to down insects (bring bug spry to Lustria) two units, of any mix however the Razordons are 65 points to the Salamanders 85 points, but now they are S4 so slightly better. Use this to hit the enemy, take ranks and war machines out, do all you can to make that hammer blow fall hard and fast. They can also flank charge in a pinch (use them to chase down)

That's your base, now your Slann. Ok here is what you want:Becalming Cogitation, Wandering Deliberations, Reservoir of Eldritch Energy and any other one of your choosing. Make the guy a BSB (hey, if he's so expensive as is, may as well make him worth it) Banner of Discipline ftw! After that its entirely up to you what to take. Terradons are good answers to warmachines yet not as good as Ripperdactyls. Bastilodons in both forms are only worth their points if you have a specific plan for them, its not a unit you can plop down and expect it to work wonders (i.e. you must acutally think harder about your battle plan when using these, ditto for ripperdactyls) (GW again trying to push the newest box by making its model the cheapest. Bloodcrushers anyone?)

(Just remember if you are only taking units of 30 Saurus in a hoarde with spears you won't get any real benefit to the fourth rank, so consider taking them 6 across for the added lulz)

Alternate Opinion

Lets start with the Slann. Becalming Cogitation and Reservoir of Eldritch Energy are fine. It seems, however, that our friend who wrote the above (and messy) composition forget about High Magic's Lore Attribute, which allows you to forget a spell of High Magic and replace it with one from any of the Eight Battle Magic Lores. These spells will automatically use their associated Lore Attribute and can always be the Signiture spell as per usual spell generation rules. That means, if you're in a bit of trouble, you can cast a High Magic lore spell, switch to Lore of Life, generate one from there, depending on what it is either keep it or swap it for 5+ Regeneration Signature Spell and then cast that. That not only gives a unit a nice Regeneration save (which I believe counts as a 'Ward Save') but it also gives the Wizard a Wound back, or any other character in range. You can do this for any Lore. Wandering Deliberations is also good, as mentioned.

Next, as I am sure the above person knows, your General is automatically the character with the highest Leadership. Since Slann have Ld9, that means they are automatically the Army General unless you have more than one Slann or somehow have another Lord with Ld9 or above. Oldbloods have Ld8. This isn't a problem until you give the Slann the Banner of Discipline, which not only turns it into the BSB but gives it Ld+1, that means the Slann will have Ld10, amazing for casting the Death Lore Signature spell. However, the Banner of Discipline also states that the Banner wielder cannot be used for Inspiring Presence. Meaning you have lost the ability to use the Slann to rally. This is a important seeing as many of the Lizardmen units are Ld5-6. Coldblooded is useful in helping, but not fully. As per the BRB FAQ, a general in a unit with the Standard of Discipline may use his Inspiring Presence with the +1 bonus. This gives any Lizardmen under the eyes of a Slann a 99.8% chance of success for all leadership tests. This is so stupidly good for the price that only an idiot would not take it.

Next, mixing Razordons and Salamanders is a fun idea, however they are both different firing types. Firstly, the Salamanders are Slow to Fire and fire as a Flame Cannon, while the Razordon are Quick to Fire and fire as Grapeshot Cannons. It would therefore be better to keep them separate. Yes, there is the bonus that the Razordons will be able to protect the Salamanders, but it's still a mess. Furthermore, the Salamanders fire an acid which ignites when it comes into contact with air. It wouldn't do that underwater, plus being in the water when they fire means they are kept cool.

Bastildons are worth their price. If you take Jungle Swarms, the Ark of Sotek is useless for a chance of a free base every turn, but the key worth is in the Solar Engine. The gem not only gives every Cold Blooded creature within range +1I (which is stupidly useful for I1 Saurus and protecting against Pit of Shades) which also stacks with Hand of Glory (for a potential +4I), it's the Gem's power which is the real useful part of it. The spell is Power Level 3, meaning you need only a 3 to cast it. You've got a 66% chance of doing it with one dice. Throw two and you're going to be unlucky to not cast it. The spell itself not only causes at least 1D3-2D6 S3-6 Flaming Hits, but also a 1/6 chance to reduce WS and BS skill by -1 for a turn, but it's the fact you're going to be forcing your opponent to either accept the chance of the spell being powerful and causing damage (The spell itself is more powerful than some higher cast value Battle Lores) OR using a couple of dice or more to dispel it. If they do dispel it, you then simply laugh and use your remaining dice to cast some High Magic or Battle Lore spells which your opponent will struggle to dispel. It is also the proud owner of the only 2+ Scaly Skin Special Rule, meaning you're going to be resisting plenty of attacks. Yes, it's Toughness is terrible (and a surprising number, it should be errated IMO) but imagine casting Wildform from a Lore of Beast Skink Priest onto it, giving it +1S and +1T, or even +2/4T from Lore of Life. Making it the true tank it should be

Magic Items

Yes the Lizardmen have some of the best okay gear available, unfortunately you will pay heavily for that advantage.

  • Magic Weapons

The Blade of Realities A new version of this and still pricey as hell but now ignoring ward- and armor saves. The only downside is that it now takes up all of a Lord's points for magic items and thus forces you to not be able to take any ward saves of your own. Thus it should probably be left at home for friendly games.

The Piranha Blade: Still a little bit expensive but getting now the bonus of reducing enemy armor. Against monster and heroes probably a good idea but a hefty price to pay. Although as the Armour Piercing stacks on impact hits this item should be used on an Oldblood with the Stegadon Helm on a Carnosaur with Swiftstride. This combo is fucking hilarious, and leaves some points for other magic items.

Another use is to give it to a scar vet on foot and challenge as it allows you to rack up the combat bonus with overkills. With only 4 attacks you have the potential to get one wound to kill the champ and the +5overkill bonus for a total of +6 to combat res. Pretty good for only 4 attacks. On average you'll get around +4ish which is still like hitting and wounding AND having your opponent fail all saves.

  • Magic Armour

Sacred Stegadon Helm of Itza The only magic armor the Lizardmen get but what an armor. For its bonus to toughness and impact hits its fricking cheap and your Saurus can also play Mini-Minotaur, on a Carnosaur for the lulz.

  • Enchanted Items

The Cloak of Feathers Yes, the same old thing that was in the Codex for like 10 editions. Still make a flying Skink and now with a little bonus. As it's cheap, you can use it to get the Priest in nice positions for the Arcane Vassal rule to help get in range for the shorter ranged spells a Slann may have. And the extra Magic Resistance is a nice touch too.

The Horn of Kygor A musical instrument carved from a long time dead dinosaur. When your hero blows it, all monsters and beasts in your army within range, will gain the Frenzy rule for one turn. As it will not affect the riders and is extremely expensive for a one use only item that does fairly little, it's best to leave this at home.

The Egg of Quango Again a little dinosaur souvenir, but this has still life in it. You can summon the ancient dinosaur from its egg and with a little luck he will clobber your enemies (on a 4+). As a one use only and requiring quite a bit of luck this should probably be left at home, but when you like dinosaurs (and that's why you'r playing Lizardmen) then it's not bad. (Although if it doesn't get so lucky, the poor bird inside dies). :,(

  • Arcane Items

Cube of Darkness Basically a 5 point more expensive Dispel Scroll that works on a 2+. In addition, you roll a dice for each remains in play spell on the board (including your own) and on a 2+ it ends. After taking a dispel scroll this is a near "must take" (if you can).

Plaque of Dominion A bound spell that makes enemy mages stupid. If your opponent has his mage parked within range of a general/bsb leave this at home. If not... probably still leave it at home. Dipel scroll first, cube second.

  • Magic Standards

Skavenpelt Banner This banner grants the Frenzy and Hatred (Skaven) rules, and all other Skaven gain Hatred when attacking the bearer. As it is more than 50 points this banner can only be used on the BSB, and taking a magic banner on a BSB is a shitty idea as he can't take any other magic items for protection. Except the Slann, who can take much better banners at a cheaper price (e.g. Banner of Discipline) and still take magic items. Skip this item as a smart general will have you're unit chasing chaff as they are frenzied.

The Jaguar Standard Just enough to be used by a unit of Temple Guard, the Jaguar Standard gives the unit Swiftstride. It's an OK choice for a Banner but there are others that could probably work better. It would be good though to make sure that if the Temple Guard run off after a unit due to PF, they catch and kill what ever fled.

Summary The ones to seriously consider are Cube of Darkness, Piranha Blade, Stegadon Helm, and perhaps the Cloak of Feathers. For any serious lists, don't bother with the rest though they have their uses.

Magic

Yes please.

Now after the new book, the Lizardmen have got High Magic (the Highelf magic) for their Slann. Well not bad at all but the real thing is in the Lore Attribute: Contemplation. It allows you to forget a spell you successfully casted and generate a new one out of High Magic or any normal Lore. This means you can drop Spells you don't need and get new ones. Playing against Demons? Lightmagic is there. Fighting against Chaosknights? There you go Searing Doom.

With magic, one of the biggest choices is which Lore for the Slann. Generally Life is regarded as the best for Slann, as it can prevent miscasts from nuking your Mega-Toad. Plus, who doesn't like Toughness 6 Saurus? Aside from your opponent, I mean. Generally its best to take a lore based on your opponent's army. Metal and Shadow are pretty good choices. Heavens is a big No as you already have Skink Priests to cast that one for you.

  • Typically, people opt for either Life or Light, with Life being more popular of a choice.

Lore of Life (Recommended) : With the Loremaster discipline on a Slann, and thus allowing you to get every spell from the lore, this is probably the best choice as Earth Blood, Flesh to Stone, and Regrowth keep your Warriors in the battle and help mitigate their relatively small numbers. Throne of Vines helps make your Slann from killing himself and lets Flesh to Stone buff your Saurus to Toughness 8 (As well as buffing the effectiveness of the other spells)! Finally, Dwellers is possibly one of the most ridiculous spells in the game and can nuke out entire units with no looking back. Generally this is probably the best of the lores to use for a balanced or defensive list. Remember that any good opponent will packing at least 1 scroll, never depend on your first dwellers working, in fact depend on it not working.

Lore of Light (Recommended): Although Life is probably better in a large tournament game Light can be devastating in Saurus-heavy armies with a Slann in the center. Birona's Timewarp and The Speed of Light are probably the best spells as they make up for the Saurus's low Initiative and mediocre Weapon Skill. The Timewarp will also give you an extra attack and double the movement turning the Saurus into something more akin to Ogres than Saurus. (That's 3 attacks and 8 movement by the way) . And best of all is that both of them and their little cousin Pha's Protection (an augment that will help against shooting and getting hit in combat at a -1 to hit) all can be cast as 12" bubble buffs that can effect all units allowing an army with a Slann in the center to be twice as effective. On another note the lore has some pretty good utility spells that can clear chaff (and also get a bonus versus the foul undead and Dæmons), and helps stop you're opponents from getting dangerous flank charges (The Net of Amyntok). All in all probably the second best lore for Lizards.

Lore of Shadow: The Lore Attribute is probably the most important part to the use of this Lore for lone Slanns. Allowing the Slann to switch with any other character within 24" after a successful cast is a great way of getting him out of combats and switching an expendable Skink or a fighty Saurus Character (assuming you are not in a Temple Guard block where you can't leave the unit). On the casting side of things Shadow is the most expensive lore to cast in the game which shouldn't be a problem for a Slann with the Discipline of Ruination for the extra casting die each spell. Otherwise most of the spells are hexes that lower your opponents units capability. The rest are either direct damage and 2 augments. Now a rundown of Each Spell:

  • (Signature) Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma: Lowering your opponent's WS, BS, LD, or I is great with Saurus as they have poor Initiative and a poor WS for elite troops n this spell allows you to level the playing field and hopefully start hitting on 3's. This debuff can also be used for hilarious effect with Purple Sun in the Lore of Death.
  • (1) Steed of Shadows: I guess its cheap to cast but I've never seen a use for it as a Saurus leader is useless with out his unit and Skink Priests and Chiefs have other ways to get flying. It could be lolzy for a flying Carnosaur or switching around with a Death Slann in the hilarious dual Shadow/Death Slann list but otherwise seems to lack any use other than switching for the Sig if you don't have Loremaster (which you should).
  • (2) The Enfeebling Foe: Minus d3 strength is okay for your Saurus but they are probably tough enough already that they don't really need it. Could be okay versus monsters and keeping you're high armor saves.
  • (3) The Withering: The true winner of this lore in my opinion, lowering you're opponents toughness is one of the best debuffs in this game...

Lore of Fire: The real kicker here is the low casting costs, with Rumination (if it isn't comped) and Loremaster, it's actually probable you will cast 5 spells with 5 dice and if you rolled 3,2 on dice the other guy might dispel 1. This is nice against armies that pack 3+ scrolls because the sheer volume of mediocre spells makes their scrolls less than cost effective. Fire is nice because it counters some fairly rare but painful tactics: Ethereal units? My block has magical attacks and +1 to wound. Your block has ward saves against fire? Well my block no longer has flaming attacks. Flammable? LOL! You have a tough 10 creature? Well Rhuin gives +1 to wound not strength so my skinks are wounding on 5s and you don't get regen saves. You're running a 5 file 10 rank unit? Meet piercing bolts. Finally Flame Storm does metric(not imperial) craptons of damage and Flame Cage makes them choose between a lot of damage(bad) and not moving at all(worse) or just combo with wind blast. Additionally if you do roll doubles 6s for magic dice just start juicing them for extra damage or take a lvl 1 skink priest to carry scrolls and maybe iceshard their block. Finally if you take this lore, take Cupped hands of the old ones.

  • Lore of Life (Recommended) : With the Loremaster discipline on a Slann, and thus allowing you to get every spell from the lore* This is not the case. A slann can only get lore master for high magic.


Tactics

There's a school of thought that stipulates that in order to win in WFB you need to be control 2 out of the 4 phases in a turn. Lizardmen have magic and combat handed to them, so choosing to not take a Slann is really only useful if you're sure that its power as a magic user is unnecessary in the battle to be played. Lizardmen don't have the mobility to control the movement phase and we really don't have any truly dedicated ranged units like Elves or Empire.

Because of the lack of mobility on Lizardmen units and lack of long-ranged firepower, one should not play defensively, say imagine if dwarves lacked their warmachines and ranged units? No one would play them because you could shoot the crap out of them for 3-4 turns and then run around behind them and flank the survivors. Lizardmen can't just stand there and shoot, the whole army needs to grind forward. Grind is really the best word here, if you're doing it right you should be making steady progress forward and crushing anything that tries to stall you.

While some units can really move around compared to your Saurus, they're all skinks, which means they're dead if you opponent looks at them with raised eyebrow. The exception is Cold One Cavalry who are pretty pricey and therefore will never be fielded in the numbers necessary to play them in super-effective numbers. An alternative view; Cold on cav cost 35 points each whereas saurus cost 11, Saurus get 2 attacks whereas Cold ones get 3, 2 of which are at strength 5 on the charge, they also have M7 and an unmodified 2+ armour save and 1 extra WS which helps a surprising amount. The big thing is that with 1" bases you reach critical mass very easily, basically with 210 points you'll get 12 hits from COC against WS3 at str4-5 on the charge, 210 points of Saurus gives you 9 hits or 12 with spears if you run them 6 wide which you should at that point cost, and COC won't die. Basically COC are situationally more point cost effective than saurus, generally against WS3, Str3-4 units. Either way in a standard list run 5 COC to flank charge an existing combat.

Against mobile armies like Bretonnia, Wood Elves or people who still think cavalry is good, don't wait for the knights or warriors to charge your flanks, get a skink skirmisher unit to stand in the way or charge them. Mobile armies will be a pain in the butt, especially if they have ranged cavalry as you will never catch them without carefully noting terrain placement etc.

Tarpits are something to avoid, even though your Saurus units will probably wipe the offending unit (unless it's a half decent one like a hammer dart with a Dwarf Lord running a 1+ rerollable and a 4++ in front), it wastes time and options. That said if you do get tarpitted, don't worry 90% of tarpits won't do much to your Saurus and very few have a real chance of beating 40+ Saurus warriors (you did take a Horde right?). Try to avoid tarpits getting to your Temple Guard as you want them to be free to deal with issues not bogged down playing whack-a-mole.

Warmachines are the most annoying things for Lizardmen player, hence you must have 2 options to deal with them quickly. Players who rely on warmachines to win are pussy bitches, or Dwarves, and should be mocked as such. Stone Throwers are absolute cunts when they hit and several bolt throwers will chew through a unit quickly. Against Dwarves this is doubly so, in fact during a Dwarf player's deployment phase while they look to place their lame ass contraptions play this clip from Community where Senor Chang perfectly describes warmachine heavy armies: [1]

EDIT# If your opponent can take lore of death be very aware of Purple Sun as it can end your army, so if you know the have it save some power dice or a scroll to dispel it.

Retrieved from "http://23.235.193.55/mediawiki/index.php?title=Warhammer/Tactics/8th_Edition/Lizardmen&oldid=545442"