Page 42: Difference between revisions
(Butthurt levels are critical, attempting emergency cleanup.) |
|||
| Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
[[Category:Dungeons & Dragons]] | [[Category:Dungeons & Dragons]] | ||
Page 42 (and it's copy on page 61) in the [[Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition|D&D 4e]] rules | Page 42 (and it's copy on page 61) in the [[Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition|D&D 4e]] rules refers to a notorious passage often cited in [[Trolling|D&D edition wars]]. | ||
== | == What it says == | ||
It's Chapter 3, "Combat Encounters," starting the section on "Actions the Rules Don't Cover." | It's Chapter 3, "Combat Encounters," starting the section on "Actions the Rules Don't Cover." | ||
| Line 11: | Line 11: | ||
The next suggestion is where the slippery slope starts: | The next suggestion is where the slippery slope starts: | ||
<blockquote>''If a character tries an action that might fail, use a check to resolve it. | <blockquote>''If a character tries an action that might fail, use a check to resolve it. If the action is essentially an attack, use an attack roll. It might involve a weapon, and target AC, or might just be a STR or DEX check against some AC/Ref/Fort defense. Use an opposed check for anything that involves a contest between two creatures.</blockquote> | ||
So far, so good; the 4e DMG is the "Dungeon Mastering for Dummies" book you've been reading up until now. Now get ready: | So far, so good; the 4e DMG is the "Dungeon Mastering for Dummies" book you've been reading up until now. Now get ready: | ||
| Line 17: | Line 17: | ||
<blockquote>''If the action is related to a skill... use that check. If it is not an obvious skill or attack, use an ability check. Consult the '''Difficulty Class and Damage by Level table''' below and set the DC according to whether you think the task should be easy, hard, or somewhere inbetween. A rule of thumb is to start with a DC of 10/15/20 for easy/moderate/hard and add half the player's level.</blockquote> | <blockquote>''If the action is related to a skill... use that check. If it is not an obvious skill or attack, use an ability check. Consult the '''Difficulty Class and Damage by Level table''' below and set the DC according to whether you think the task should be easy, hard, or somewhere inbetween. A rule of thumb is to start with a DC of 10/15/20 for easy/moderate/hard and add half the player's level.</blockquote> | ||
Here's where the fun begins. | |||
The above quote is so vague that we still can't agree as to what the hell they meant. 3.5e fans interpret it as meaning that DCs continuously increase at the same rate that they gain bonuses to those checks, i.e. an action that required a roll of 10+ at level 1 will always require a roll of 10+. 4e fans argue that the whole chart is just a suggestion to make eyeballing DCs a little easier for the DM. A few retards even decided that this means that a check that had DC 10 when they found it at level 1 will now be DC 14 when they try again a few levels later. These guys are probably trolling and should be ignored. | |||
[[Image:Page42chart.PNG|thumb|center|640px]] | [[Image:Page42chart.PNG|thumb|center|640px]] | ||
== Why is this | The rest of the page explains the reasoning behind the damage values, which are roughly equivalent to a typical attack or power from somebody of that level. This part is pretty innocuous so nobody cares about it. | ||
== Why is this so [[Rage|effective]]? == | |||
{{Dnd-skub}} | {{Dnd-skub}} | ||
* To | * To 3.5e fans, this basically renders levels meaningless since the DCs just keep rising arbitrarily as you get stronger. | ||
* To 4e fans, this is basically just the same scale 3.5e used for most DCs, but with less eyeballing. | |||
* To | * Every now and then some chucklefuck asks "how is this different from Rule Zero?", which starts an even nastier argument. | ||
* | |||
== | == Damage Control == | ||
In the "official errata to the Dungeon Master's Guide" (July 2008). They lowered the difficulty classes for Easy/Medium/Difficult to 5/10/15 with +1.5/+2/+2 per 3 levels. | In the "official errata to the Dungeon Master's Guide" (July 2008). They lowered the difficulty classes for Easy/Medium/Difficult to 5/10/15 with +1.5/+2/+2 per 3 levels. This doesn't actually fix the real problem here, and actually makes it worse (now the effective DCs ''rise'' every level). You're best off just ignoring it. | ||
== The Ultimate Question? == | == The Ultimate Question? == | ||
Revision as of 21:10, 30 July 2013
Page 42 (and it's copy on page 61) in the D&D 4e rules refers to a notorious passage often cited in D&D edition wars.
What it says
It's Chapter 3, "Combat Encounters," starting the section on "Actions the Rules Don't Cover."
Your presence as the Dungeon Master is what makes D&D such a great game. You make it possible for the players to try anything they can imagine. That means it's your job to resolve unusual actions when they players try them.
The first suggestion is relatively tame: if it's just a favourable situation, give the players a +2 on their next roll, or combat advantage. If it's a sucky situation, give them a -2. Same old +/- 10% you can find in any other RPG.
The next suggestion is where the slippery slope starts:
If a character tries an action that might fail, use a check to resolve it. If the action is essentially an attack, use an attack roll. It might involve a weapon, and target AC, or might just be a STR or DEX check against some AC/Ref/Fort defense. Use an opposed check for anything that involves a contest between two creatures.
So far, so good; the 4e DMG is the "Dungeon Mastering for Dummies" book you've been reading up until now. Now get ready:
If the action is related to a skill... use that check. If it is not an obvious skill or attack, use an ability check. Consult the Difficulty Class and Damage by Level table below and set the DC according to whether you think the task should be easy, hard, or somewhere inbetween. A rule of thumb is to start with a DC of 10/15/20 for easy/moderate/hard and add half the player's level.
Here's where the fun begins.
The above quote is so vague that we still can't agree as to what the hell they meant. 3.5e fans interpret it as meaning that DCs continuously increase at the same rate that they gain bonuses to those checks, i.e. an action that required a roll of 10+ at level 1 will always require a roll of 10+. 4e fans argue that the whole chart is just a suggestion to make eyeballing DCs a little easier for the DM. A few retards even decided that this means that a check that had DC 10 when they found it at level 1 will now be DC 14 when they try again a few levels later. These guys are probably trolling and should be ignored.
The rest of the page explains the reasoning behind the damage values, which are roughly equivalent to a typical attack or power from somebody of that level. This part is pretty innocuous so nobody cares about it.
Why is this so effective?
- To 3.5e fans, this basically renders levels meaningless since the DCs just keep rising arbitrarily as you get stronger.
- To 4e fans, this is basically just the same scale 3.5e used for most DCs, but with less eyeballing.
- Every now and then some chucklefuck asks "how is this different from Rule Zero?", which starts an even nastier argument.
Damage Control
In the "official errata to the Dungeon Master's Guide" (July 2008). They lowered the difficulty classes for Easy/Medium/Difficult to 5/10/15 with +1.5/+2/+2 per 3 levels. This doesn't actually fix the real problem here, and actually makes it worse (now the effective DCs rise every level). You're best off just ignoring it.
The Ultimate Question?
Some people who notice the page number realize what is the true ultimate question.
Q: What will make the most fa/tg/guys rage?
A: Page 42