Editing Primaris Space Marines (section)

==The Community Reaction and GW's Handling==
[[File:Marine balance.png|thumb|right|500px|This isn't even an over reaction, you can do all these things with the 8.5 codex and Ultramarine supplement. Clearly <s> Ward still has some influence</s> because the Ultramarines <s>are the greatest of them all</s> nowhere near as good as other Marine chapters, especially the meta-defining Iron Hands, even in the 8.5 codex + supplement.]]
Games Workshop brought Roboutte Guilliman back to life and he personally created all-new Space Marines. [[Skub|How do you THINK the community reacted?]]

When Primaris marines first came out, the reaction was anything and everything between rage and genuine excitement. Primaris defenders loved the amazing models (let's be honest, GW has master-level sculptors these days) and the new future-tech to play with, combined with some genuinely promising [[Advancing the Storyline]], flipping the status quo from "a decrepit empire resting on its laurels" to "the last hurrah of the Imperium with one desperate final generation leading the charge." And after 6th and 7th edition were filled with [[Eldar|list]] after [[Tau|list]], [[Heldrake|unit]] after [[Hive Tyrant|unit]] specifically designed around reducing Space Marines to slag while shrugging off bolter fire like it was gentle rain, the chance to have some Marines and Boltguns that actually lived up to their fluff was a breath of fresh air.

As for criticisms, many argued that the Numarines looked too smooth and shiny to be proper Marines, in some cases treading on the [[Deathwatch]] (start a firefight between the Deathwatch and some Raven Guard [[Infiltrator]]s, and just try and figure out which side is which), in other cases lacking the iconic Gothic look made famous by the Classic Marines, as well as much of the iconography like skulls. Then there's accusations of Guilliman and Cawl just being too noblebright, too advanced, and rapidly approaching Mary Sue territory &mdash; just suddenly showing up with hundreds of thousands of reserve forces that are flat-out better than what the Emperor created, complete with flotillas of hovertanks that were seemingly invented with no difficulty whatsoever. This was, of course, ultimately rooted in the fear of an inevitable squatting of Classic Marines, which for Oldfags would mean the end of their lovingly collected armies.

There has also been the problem with balance. At the beginning of 8th edition, 2 wound troops were relatively tough to shift and with their generally longer range weaponry, they became the king of gun-lining very quickly. Impulsors have an assload of guns and could theoretically challenge anything, including fliers. Hellblasters became a favorite of absolutely everyone for their ability to delete MEQs, TEQs, and even light vehicles in a single volley. On the flipside, more expensive Marines were having trouble shifting the early 8th edition horde meta, and would often just get pushed off objectives. The relative lack of melee options was a sticking point for both fluffy and crunchy players. For a while Primaris were seen as soup ingredients, with a good half their range sitting on the shelf for most players... then Codex: Space Marine 8.5 released, in which all semblance of Primaris units being balanced went out the window. Doctrines (which also affected Firstborn) increased the overall killing power of Primaris weapons. Aggressors were one of the most common uber units as in 8.5 they gained an extra wound, becoming T5 3W infantry, that could vomit out copious amount of fire resulting in the situation of them being able to wipe out multiple enemy units at range while taking relatively few casualties in return. In addition multiple Primaris units got their own unique rules that seemed like they were specifically designed to fuck with their opponents, which for many felt like a deviation from how marines traditionally played and some argued that the Primaris marines were stepping on other armies toes, [[Eldar|by both stealing their play style]] and [[Tyranids|taking resources away from their armies,]] [[Orks|many of which could have used new releases and updates.]] The last half of 8th edition was Marine-dominated, and many fa/tg/uys would refuse play against Primaris/Primaris heavy armies.

As of the release of 9th, GW has rebalanced Marines to tried to bring other armies new codex's in line with Space Marine, however two new Primaris units the [[Intercessor|Heavy Intercessors]], and [[Eradicator]]s have both proved to be exceptionally strong units all on their own and quite possibly the strongest Troop and Heavy Support choice in the entire game at the moment. GW's solution to fixing marines in general wasn't taking things away from them, but adding more thing to everyone else, resulting in 9th edition suffering very badly from rules bloat.

As for the Firstborn going the way of the dodo? GeeDubs seems to be holding off on that, releases have been kind of schizophrenic. Things alternate between waves of nothing but Primaris (a whole box set dedicated to [[Bike_Squad#Primaris_Outriders|Outriders]] and [[Bladeguard Veteran]]s) and some pats on the back for the Firstborn (lots of buffs for Terminators, and a 2021 re-release of the [[Stormhawk]] of all things).

10th Edition is going the way of blurring the lines between Firstborn and Primaris, with Terminator armour being fluffed as being usable by Primaris, several of the old transports originally deemed unusable like the humble Drop Pod now being given the greenlight for the new boyz, and outright replacing of the old Firstborn Sternguard with Primaris Sternguard. Since we still have no clue what this means for more Firstborn-focused roles like the Tactical Squad or Devastator Squad, we're still up in the air on whether or not this is the final death knell.

Nowadays /tg/ is partially split on the matter, those who like Primaris, those who still hate them, and those who have accepted them and build their lists to combat them.